Liquor Law Revisions
The Utah House and Senate have liquor law bills set on a collision course. The way things currently stand, my guess is that private club laws will not be changed, unless – as a trade off – restaurants such as Iggy’s and Applebee’s reconfigure their restaurants to move mixing to a back room. In my opinion, that’s not a trade worth making. (Here are some of my earlier thoughts on alcohol policy).
I propose a third way. Utah should institute a 10-day travelling pass. Residents and non-residents could get the pass, by paying a fee at a participating club and, thereafter, use it at any participating club. Clubs would be free to opt in. In addition, or alternatively, clubs can sell annual memberships under the current regulatory framework.
This is how I foresee it working. A tourist would buy a 10-day pass and use it at participating clubs. That is a pretty simple concept to explain. I imagine that Utahns might have a few annual memberships at places they like to frequent and, occasionally, a 10-day pass. For example, a Salt Lake City resident might have memberships at a few places in the valley, and, when staying in Park City for a week, also would pick up a 10-day pass.
As is currently the practice, clubs would keep revenues from annual memberships. Other than a handling fee that the club would keep, I envision that revenue from the travelling pass would go back to the State for enforcement purposes.
One additional thought. On these issues, I believe the diversity of interests involved are not always appreciated. While it often is portrayed as Mormons vs. Gentiles, many stakeholders have interests they fight to protect. For example, several clubs make a lot of money selling memberships. Quietly, they might fight to keep laws exactly as they are. Also, if clubs and restaurants are pitted against each other, as currently seems to be the alignment, I worry that policy might be based on the respective political strength of each group, instead of the overall good of the State.
Your thoughts on this idea?
I propose a third way. Utah should institute a 10-day travelling pass. Residents and non-residents could get the pass, by paying a fee at a participating club and, thereafter, use it at any participating club. Clubs would be free to opt in. In addition, or alternatively, clubs can sell annual memberships under the current regulatory framework.
This is how I foresee it working. A tourist would buy a 10-day pass and use it at participating clubs. That is a pretty simple concept to explain. I imagine that Utahns might have a few annual memberships at places they like to frequent and, occasionally, a 10-day pass. For example, a Salt Lake City resident might have memberships at a few places in the valley, and, when staying in Park City for a week, also would pick up a 10-day pass.
As is currently the practice, clubs would keep revenues from annual memberships. Other than a handling fee that the club would keep, I envision that revenue from the travelling pass would go back to the State for enforcement purposes.
One additional thought. On these issues, I believe the diversity of interests involved are not always appreciated. While it often is portrayed as Mormons vs. Gentiles, many stakeholders have interests they fight to protect. For example, several clubs make a lot of money selling memberships. Quietly, they might fight to keep laws exactly as they are. Also, if clubs and restaurants are pitted against each other, as currently seems to be the alignment, I worry that policy might be based on the respective political strength of each group, instead of the overall good of the State.
Your thoughts on this idea?
posted by steve u. at 2/27/2009
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14 Comments:
That sounds like additional overhead, and one more thing to be monitored.
Are you referring to HB347 and SB187 as the bills on a collision course? If so I have to say that of those two I like HB347 much better. The traveling pass is an intriguing proposition, but I would not commit to that idea before I have time to think about it. Right now I just hope that SB187 fails because it look really lousy (and I don't even drink).
Misty,
My idea would impose additional overhead and one more thing to be monitored. The question, though, is whether it is better than the present situation.
David,
I like HB 347. I don't like SB 187, except for the resort license part. But, my bet is that HB 347 won't pass without the Chili's of the world being forced to move mixing out of sight (but, remember, the bottles and "bar look" will stay in plain sight, as protected by the First Amendment).
I've guessed incorrectly up here plenty of times; maybe HB 347 can find a way, without sticking it to the restaurants. In case it can't, I want another idea to be in circulation.
If you sincerely want to make things easier for our friends from out-of-state to feel comfortable and welcome when they come here, then I think this might be a good idea. If your goal is simply to get more tourists here for monetary gain, as I think the Gov. has articulated his position, then I don't like it.
Our laws should be what is best for Utahns, not for people who visit. So unless the temporary pass is best for Utahns (not for monetary reasons but social ones), and also happens to be good for non-Utahns, then I don't like the idea.
I don't see how this solves any problems. What's the purpose of the "10-day traveling pass"? What problem does it solve?
Nowhere else in America will a skier, hiker, convention attendee, or film-festival participant be required to fill out the paperwork and pay the fee for a 10-day pass. If this becomes law, every travel or recreation article that mentions Utah will continue to bring up the hassles that the majority-Mormon legislature imposes on visitors and citizens who choose to consume alcohol in any quantity. It will be another worldwide Utah joke.
These decisions have other consequences. The doorman at each Private Club is currently required to verify the membership of every patron who enters the establishment, which usually involves looking up names and dates in a long list. If the visitor doesn't have a current membership, the doorman needs to fill out paperwork containing the personal information of the visitor, collect a fee, manage the cash, and fill out a receipt. Now, you want to add a separate set of "10-Day Pass" forms to that process? Who is paying attention to the door while all of this is going on?
That time could be better spent verifying the identification and sobriety of patrons.
What provisions does your proposal include for any visitor who happens to misplace his or her 10-day pass while on vacation in Utah? If a visitor leaves his pass in his hotel room, and is required to pay another fee at the hotel bar the next day, I suspect he won't be too happy about that.
What number of irate visitors is acceptable to the State of Utah? It only takes one person in the right capacity to generate an extremely costly amount of negative publicity.
Nevermind the visitors. Quite frankly, as a Utah resident, I am beyond frustrated and I'm completely sick of paying a membership fee (temporary or annual) every time I want to go out to a bar near my home. I have stopped spending money in a lot of places, simply because I don't want to pony up another $12 just to get in the door. Judging from the current condition of Downtown Salt Lake City, I'm apparently not the only one who is staying home.
I am personally offended by these intrusive laws. I'm an adult, a taxpayer, a voter, a lifelong Utah resident, and a law-abiding citizen. I don't want to be hassled by "Big Brother and the Morality Police" whenever I go out to one of the few remaining bars and clubs in Utah.
I simply cannot understand what these laws hope to accomplish. Every time I encounter this system, it's annoyingly obvious that the people who have written and passed these laws really have no first-hand experience with how they play out in the real world.
I personally hope Hughes' bill passes as is; however, I am glad you see the follies of the Senate proposal.
Here's a thought on your compromise: why not a cheap, 10-day pass for tourists, and a more expensive one YEAR pass for Utahns?
Steve,
Please peruse the comments to the SL Trib story on your idea here:
http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=11803813&PageIndex=4
You'll notice that they, like the vote in the Senate committee, are unanimous.
Please, I beg you, do the right thing: eliminate the club membership law AND the Zion curtain.
Really, there are so many more important issues today. Let this one go.
Anon asks, "Here's a thought on your compromise: why not a cheap, 10-day pass for tourists, and a more expensive one YEAR pass for Utahns?"
I probably wasn't clear. That basically is my proposal.
As a few expressed, I understand that people want private club laws to simply go away. Again, I don't think that's in the works this year. I'm looking for something that could be done.
Our liquor laws are already stupidly complex. No offense intended, but I sincerely hope that the pass idea never gains any traction.
The system needs to be dead simple. As in, no explanation needed. If you're explaining, you're losing.
I believe that Utah takes a huge hit on tourism because of the complex liquor laws. People are surprised and frustrated by our stupid laws when they visit.
SIMPLIFY. Sure, make liquor serving organizations register with the state, and charge sin taxes on liquor, but don't confuse visitors to the point that they say "it's impossible to get a drink in Utah".
We're shooting our economy in the foot at a time when our tourism is already way down.
Tough call, Steve. I'm not a drinker, but it seems like our membership system really is a pain for people - especially tourists. I'd like to see it go away altogether.
But, you know the politics, and if it isn't going to go away this year, it'd be nice to do something that makes it simpler at least. Seems like there are a number of legislators who are very bent on keeping things as they are or even making it more difficult for restaurants, for example.
Good luck!
Steve I was at the capitol today and where did all your hair go???????
how about we normalize them and do away with private clubs and no walls around the bar.
Steve the state makes a bunch of bucks off of booze today, they will continue to make a bunch of bucks off booze tomorrow.
Somebody might have noticed that allot of "members" partake of such beverages from time to time.
Why not look to our neighbor to the south, another state that has a great deal of influence from "members" as to the legislation passed.
AZ is by wide open! But take away crime involving illegals, id actually bet are pretty similar. That could be wrong, but I think no really.
Currently you place a massive burden upon the owners and operators and employees of establishments offering such for consumption. Yet you continue to allow a totally out of control agency carte blanch without any oversight or valid method to defend themselves against such activities. Which are many time nothing more than an illegal operation performed by a taxpayer funded agency.
I've found it rather amazing over the years I've been involved in the hospitality industry, and such probably equals your age, that this state can't simply grow up and leave the morality questions up to those involved in such.
Utah is not alone, the bible belt is just as full of totally foolish laws and regulations. (front door, back door and baptist door). Such is a reality, mormons are not the only fools for such, quite frankly, STUPID actions.
Since the ultimate goal of the legislature is the outright prohibition of booze, then introduce a bill and attempt to make it so! Put your names upn such so the citizens will know weather to vote for you or against you at the next election.
Fark the 10' walls, and fark those suggesting such! Most restaurants are not like chillies, their booze prep is never seen by the consumers and especially not by "the children"! 99.9% of kids have zero idea what is contained in that delivered beverage! and closer to 100% could give a crap.
You desire some semblance or proof for such a statement. Shared nakedness via their own phones! Our children are not that different than we were at the age, but they do have much better tools at their disposal.
Your legislation has almost killed my one and local bar. That would be the state determining via junk science, that second hand smoke is some sort of a threat to the health those that might be exposed on a short term and voluntary basis! As stated from the owner, "well 90% of my customers smoke, and 100% of my employees do, I can't see such as any sort of benefit". It was not!
You may disagree, if so, then please name me three individuals that have contracted cancer from second hand smoke. Even you know that means disclosing all about such persons. In a nation of over 300 million I'm sure that a person of some powers could find such.
I can't believe a discussion about a law against smoking in a car could ever so much as entertain an audience yet alone actually hit the press!
My kids are gone, I'm empty nest so I (for the most part), don't give a hoot in hell. Except, this too is an infringement upon the rights of the individual and his/her control over their charges! If the state desires to dictate what adults can and can not do "with their children present" then I suggest you pay for such permission, I figure a grand a kid a month might be close to a beginning figure. Agree?
I remember the 83 session well, you at the time were close to a fond future memory of your parents. Well actually you were older, but still a child. I was not, I was the recipient of a massive influx of water due to abnormal conditions on a massive state wide scale. SLC turned streets into rivers, Billies mountain fell and shut down the coast to coast rails for months.
I was forced to take measures that today would have got me shot dead, but at the time a simple warning swing of the backhoe boom was enough to coax the officer to leave me the hell alone, cuz I was gonna dig and place a protective dike along the 200' frontage of my home. I did.
Point being, this fellow with badge and gun, and authority to shoot me dead, realized that his own families position was probably the same or could have been. I was not doing anything to jeopardize any others, worse thing that could have happened was severing a 25 pair phone line. Which was laid far out of the reach of my implement. I knew that but he did not.
Well I told you that to actually tell you this. I called up my rep, Tom Christensen, and suggested that we had a big sale on hip waders instead of authorizing the "norm bangter water park". I suggested that maybe the session shold be devoted to just counting the number of different laws currently on the books, not caring what they were, just count them.
I challenge you to do the same. COUNT and report the number of laws enacted and still current.
After counting them you can of course return and examine what use they have for today. Use your own legal background to determine which ones could pass a citizen vote, if you desire.
That was a bit long for any blog comment, but full of stuff all legislators should be paying attention to. The voters are!
Oh and why does it seem that so many lawmakers are so shy of the awipe known as Buttars? Throw this Neanderthal out of your house. All he actually seems capable of is press, and 100% bad press!
The only way I can close this rant, is to suggest, in the strongest of language, to leave the people alone! Face it, the drug war is lost, you can't/wont enforce immigration laws, and your have zero right to dictate our bedroom activities!
Count the laws we all have to know! I dare you to do so and report such back to us. Just count them!
Why do you republicans think that you have all the answers to all of the worlds doings? I find it funny that you guys fight abortions but you male legislators don't get pregnant and you fight drinking but you don't get drunk. Then you fight helping people but have never helped anyone. Where do you get your rational? I'm amazed at it all.
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