Utahns Want Tax Cuts
Spending interests often argue that Utahns don't want tax cuts. They even buy polls to support that position. Don't believe it.
Here's all the proof you need, from a Deseret News article describing Rep. Carol Moss's new-found support of the proposed tax cut:
A retired teacher, Moss said it's clear the $70 million taken off the table during the 2006 Legislature for tax cuts will not "go back to education now." Since the only alternative is a tax cut -- and since at least $30 million is going to spread the brackets in the current system -- she figured she would vote for it and hope for more true tax reform later.
I'm sure you'll hear that kind of story often in the next few weeks. It's nonsense. Ask the representative if he/she understands that the tax cut applies every year, meaning that the money will be taken off the table every year, not just this year. Therefore, if it is just a question of what will leave the most money available for spending, why isn't the representative opposing the cut? (Yes, $70 million currently is off the table for this year; but the cut means that $700 million will come off the table over the next decade). Answer: that representative likely is in a tight race and realizes that Utahns want tax cuts.
If a representative votes for the tax cut, it means one of two things. Either (1) the representative believes that lowering our tax burden will stimulate the economy or (2) that representative understands that his/her constituents believe that it will stimulate the economy.
It's a philosophy that several representatives oppose -- that cutting taxes will generate more opportunity and, ultimately, more government revenue for schools, roads, Medicaid, etc. -- until an election looms around the corner. Don't believe me? I invite any representative to send out a campaign brochure with a huge "I oppose tax cuts" splashed across the top. It would be a great way to free up lots of time next January and February.
Here's all the proof you need, from a Deseret News article describing Rep. Carol Moss's new-found support of the proposed tax cut:
A retired teacher, Moss said it's clear the $70 million taken off the table during the 2006 Legislature for tax cuts will not "go back to education now." Since the only alternative is a tax cut -- and since at least $30 million is going to spread the brackets in the current system -- she figured she would vote for it and hope for more true tax reform later.
I'm sure you'll hear that kind of story often in the next few weeks. It's nonsense. Ask the representative if he/she understands that the tax cut applies every year, meaning that the money will be taken off the table every year, not just this year. Therefore, if it is just a question of what will leave the most money available for spending, why isn't the representative opposing the cut? (Yes, $70 million currently is off the table for this year; but the cut means that $700 million will come off the table over the next decade). Answer: that representative likely is in a tight race and realizes that Utahns want tax cuts.
If a representative votes for the tax cut, it means one of two things. Either (1) the representative believes that lowering our tax burden will stimulate the economy or (2) that representative understands that his/her constituents believe that it will stimulate the economy.
It's a philosophy that several representatives oppose -- that cutting taxes will generate more opportunity and, ultimately, more government revenue for schools, roads, Medicaid, etc. -- until an election looms around the corner. Don't believe me? I invite any representative to send out a campaign brochure with a huge "I oppose tax cuts" splashed across the top. It would be a great way to free up lots of time next January and February.
posted by steve u. at 9/06/2006
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21 Comments:
Utahns want education funded better!
Read my lips!
You want tax cuts to get votes!
Okay. Why do tax cuts get votes? Because people don't want them?
No. People want tax cuts. Most Utahns realize that the best way to continue with the kinds of increases in education funding we've seen the past 2 years is to grow the economy. The best way to grow the economy is to leave bucks in people's pockets.
I don't know if I did an adequate job expressing how odd I think that statement is: people don't want tax cuts; you guys are just doing this to get votes. It's repeated all the time, and it just makes no sense.
Also, it probably should be noted that the Legislature has increased funding for public education 16% over the last 2 years. And most districts have the ability to raise even more money, through raising their voted leeway, if they feel they need it.
I make no bones about the fact that I think education needs more funding. My opinion -- which I believe is shared overwhelmingly by my constituents -- is that the best way to ensure increased funding for education is to stoke the economy, which effort would include cutting taxes.
This isn't the first time that legislators think they know what "we" want better than we do ourselves. The tax cut is a joke.
Suggestion to anonymous and anyone else that opposes having their taxes cut: put your money where your mouth is, but don't put MY money where your mouth is. That is, you are free to donate your tax cut back to the state if you believe so strongly that government is a better custodian of the funds than you are. Just don't force the rest of us to follow your plan. Let us use the cut to fuel the economy. I've got some pretty good ideas of what I could do with the money I don't have to send to the state.
Yes I want tax cuts, but there are a lot of things I want the government to do more than cut taxes. At least pay our teachers enough so that they don't qualify for food stamps. Well, I suppose that that is a form a pay, but we can do better than that.
Thank you Steve for expressing this. I felt like I was on crazy pills reading several comments that "Utahns don't want tax cuts". I think Reach Upward's proposal has merit, those who don't want tax cuts, should be able to elect to forgo their part of the tax cut. Any takers? (crickets)
I would agree that teachers are (in some cases) underpaid, but food stamps? Aren't we being a little over dramatic?
No, paramphil, my wife and I both work other jobs aside from teaching to support our family of 4 so we don't have to go on food stamps. If, however, my wife decided to quit teaching and her other job to be a full time mom, we would be out on the street and on food stamps. As we gain experience through years of service, continual training, and (at our own expense) advanced degrees we probably be able to drop the other jobs.
Sure is great how our family values state condones all this. Don't get me wrong: this is also a problem in many other fields where people are woefully underpaid and both parents MUST work. Kind of funny how theology and values gets pushed aside when it comes down to money and businesses paying workers a morally sound wage.
Bizarre anon, I have many teachers (in Washington County) for whom I do their taxes and (unless they are new teachers) they almost always make more than I do. I'm the sole income in my family of 5 and I have no fears of needing food stamps. Washington County ain't cheap.
I wonder if there is a huge disparity in pay for different counties.
"A liberal is a person who feels a great debt to society, which debt he proposes to pay with your money."
-- G. Gordon Liddy
P.S. The quote wasn't directed at anyone, I just thought it was meaningful to the dialouge.
Good point, Steve. I never did understand the "you're just doing this for votes" and "people don't want tax cuts."
Sometimes I just wanna ralph when people justify their positions on the results of a Dan Jones poll. Why bother electing a governor or legislature when all we would have to do is have Dan Jones write up a question and tell us what "the people" want.
Good thing ol' Dan ain't biased either because then we couldn't trust the results.
Even worse than relying on Dan Jones poll is citing Tribune editorial board positions. Has anyone noticed how far to the left these guys have drifted in recent years. It's like they are trying to out-liberal the New York Times.
Since we have many common needs and social ills that must be collecively addressed, we appear to have sellected various levels of government sponsored services as the cure. While doing so, it appeas that we would all love both "massive tax cuts" and, at the same time, "a better funded and more stable education public system", as well as "more comprehensive and better funded state services" of every kind. Our solution?. We, collectively, "mix our own medicine for our collective ills, suggar coat it as best we can, give it a nice name and, then,
cerimoniously drink it together". Endlessly "tweaking the mix and, then, selling the brew" is the awful task that awaits every legislator. If only some great statesman could divise "shoes that are big on the inside but little on the outside". Voin Campbell.
Steve --
Are there hard numbers available on likely adjusted bracket spreads for the reformed regular tax system? If so where could I find them?
1. The teaching profession is undervalued but teachers are not underpaid. (opinion)
2. I will send my $48 tax cut to my local school district. (fact)
3. Utah is still 51st in the nation in per pupil funding. (fact)
4. The quality of education a state offers is a higher priority in determining where businesses relocate than whether taxes are high or low. (what I learned at the Capitol on Wednesday.)
pramahaphil,
A link to a draft of the bill is in the first sentence of the entry below this one. The top bracket, for example, is stretched from $8,600 (married, joint filers) to $11,000.
On the issue of teacher pay, I believe that starting teachers are underpaid. A big reason for that low pay is the teachers unions. The Legislature sends the money to districts in bulk (for school boards to determine how to spend). School boards negotiate contracts with the unions. Unions require that most of the money goes to teachers in the last 3 years of their career (in part, because retirement pay is based on the highest 3 years a teacher has in the system). I have often stated that I wish districts would do more to push more money down to teachers starting their careers. The thing I'm doing to try to deal with this is take some steps toward "incentive pay" -- paying teachers based on the work they do, rather than how long they've been in the system.
I am a cop, I make a pathetic, horrible wage, simply to be assaulted, spit on (literally) forced to work on Christmas as well as my wedding anniversary,
thanksgiving and other holidays. I get no two-week Christmas break, I get no summer break, and I get no F.O.P Weekend like the U.E.A weekend.
My wife and kids have to worry when they kiss me goodbye, if I am going to come home again. I am hated by those I arrest and looked at with indifference by those I serve...Still I have my wife stay home with my children, because it is a priority of mine, period. If the teachers on this blog who work two jobs each would re-assess their life style and priorities, I am certain that they could make it with one income. Would they have to give up a few extras? Yes. Would they have to make sacrifices? Yes. My family does every month.
I absolutley agree teachers are underpaid, but until I get a raise, they can stand in line.
Carl W.
By the way, I WANT my tax cut, and I support what the legislature is preparing to do with tax reform. Good luck guys!
Ok Carl, I'll give up good food.
The bulk of my income goes to housing, transportation, and savings for my children's education. Now that I look at it I probably should never have bought a house, but kept on renting, but the renting market wasn't possible for my family. The only way we can survive on one income is to leave Utah altogether or go live in a place in Utah where the housing market is not so expensive.
Granted I didn't provide any information to you, but that does not give you the license to assume that I am some sort of idiot who doesn't know how to budget.
Sorry Anon., I wasn't assuming you were an idiot. Honestly my knowledge of teacher payscales comes from my personal (admittedly limited) scope of experience dealing with teacher clients. I am honestly ignorant/curious about pay disparities between districts and counties accross the state.
Thanks Steve, I'll study up on it. I think incentive pay is a good idea.
Perahps we could do some serious cutting of school district middle management in order to fund our teachers better. Perhaps we should get the government out of education altogether if the educational industrial monolith fails to serve us well.
Utah will always be in 51st place in funding due to the taxpayer-to-student ratio. But what does that mean? Does it mean we provide a lower quality education? Not by a long shot.
The way I see it, this new tax plan gives people who don't want a tax cut a chance to put their money where their mouth is. Instead of paying the lower of the two tax options, they can pay the higher of the two. Maybe this money could be automatically set aside for school funding increases so it's not spent elsewhere. But I'd be surprised if you get much. Because even though rhetoric about more education spending instead of a tax cut is nice in the abstract, I'm guessing when it gets right down to it, people will vote with their checkbooks.
Let's reduce GREATLY the influence of the state legislature and the federal government on education and have greater local control, focusing on building stronger communities rather than serving special interest groups and politics.
As for teachers being overpaid, after 10 years of teaching, I still don't qualify for a housing loan.
BUT there are other occupations underpaid too.
I personally can suppprt some kind of merit pay system, but I don't want it pushed forward by groups with an agenda against public education. We can do it another way. I DO favor greater public participation by businesses and individuals in education.
As a person works longer for a company, the pay scale often does go up. More money for first-time teachers is a first step. Improving teacher retention, increasing respect for teachers rather than hostility (as some special interest groups do), increasing teacher morale, improving interactions between parents and teachers (and students), doing things that benefit ALL schools and not just certain people, offering businesses incentives that "adopt" a school and/or provide good educational help to a local school or schools, giving incentives to schools and teachers for enlisting community help, WORKING TOGETHER without the politics, reducing special interest influence, discarding cut-and-run education strategies, improving NEIGHBORHOOD schools, and so on and so on are things we can do.
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