Paying Teachers What They're Worth, Part 2
In the post below, I asked whether good teachers should demand to be paid more than bad teachers.
One reader referred me to an article about the D.C. schools considering performance bonuses for teachers and flexibility with Union rules.
This system would be the "hybrid option" of the math incentives bill I passed last session (compensation bonuses based on both inputs (certifications and degrees) and outputs (student performance)).
Another reader took me to task for separating the topics of collective bargaining and school choice. Interestingly, the actions of the D.C. district are being taken in response to choice. "The landscape has changed. Our parents are voting with their feet," [Union President George] Parker said. "As kids continue leaving the system, we will lose teachers. Our very survival depends on having kids in D.C. schools so we'll have teachers to represent."
The school board member who took issue below with my tone graciously contacted me off-line for a nice exchange. I'm glad she reminded me to also celebrate the great things that are happening daily in our public education system. We're doing a lot of good, and if we reason together we can do even better.
One reader referred me to an article about the D.C. schools considering performance bonuses for teachers and flexibility with Union rules.
This system would be the "hybrid option" of the math incentives bill I passed last session (compensation bonuses based on both inputs (certifications and degrees) and outputs (student performance)).
Another reader took me to task for separating the topics of collective bargaining and school choice. Interestingly, the actions of the D.C. district are being taken in response to choice. "The landscape has changed. Our parents are voting with their feet," [Union President George] Parker said. "As kids continue leaving the system, we will lose teachers. Our very survival depends on having kids in D.C. schools so we'll have teachers to represent."
The school board member who took issue below with my tone graciously contacted me off-line for a nice exchange. I'm glad she reminded me to also celebrate the great things that are happening daily in our public education system. We're doing a lot of good, and if we reason together we can do even better.
posted by steve u. at 6/06/2006
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15 Comments:
I didn't know one legislator can pass a bill all by himself. Good Job. Imagine wha you could have done in the Senate. Seriously I think the bill last session was great and i hope there is more to come next year. Thanks for pushing for accountability.
What's the point in having a blog, if I can't even star in that?
Okay, okay, if I have to share the credit, it was very nice to work with the Senate sponsor Howard Stephenson. Interestingly, some of the people I would most like to thank, I'm sure would not want to be publicly thanked. They see the need for reform, but are hesitant to take the arrows that come with it (which is largely understandable, given their positions).
I have a question in regards to one of the points from the last post: are there any public secondary/primary school districts with a tenure system in place in Utah?
I might add, Steve, that I find your attitude refreshing and not at all like you get out of most politicians. If you were in my district I'd vote for you despite our differing politics. What I'm getting at is at least you listen to people and engage in discussion with them rather than just dismiss them out of hand. With the accrimony that is modern politics, that is admirable.
All Utah school districts have tenure, and it is achieved very early in a career.
I checked out the Bowling Syndicate. Cool. When I was growing up (in NW Houston), an alley down the street had a deal where school kids could bowl a game every day of the summer for just the cost of the shoe rental. It was the beginning of a serious love affair, because -- as you obviously know -- bowling is the sport of the gods.
Thanks for the compliment. I enjoy politics and, hopefully, I'm helping get some worthwhile things done.
No way chewie, why not vote for Don L. Miller, he would have fought for the disabled and elderly.
Ok DD, you have a point and maybe I couldn't put political positions aside--in any case I still admire a politician who's willing to interact with folks with a blog like this.
Boo yah on the bowling!
Great follow up, Rep. Urquhart. I think the article illustrated what I was trying to get across the other day. And like theorris, I want to commend you for being open to dialogue. Forgive me if I ever came across as sounding hostile or upset in my comments on your other post. I just feel strongly about the benefits that more school choice would offer Utah.
And by the way, I grew up in SW Houston. When ever it gets hot in Utah, I just reminisce about those humid Houston summers, and then all of the sudden, it doesn't seem that hot anymore.
Great follow up, Rep. Urquhart. I think the article illustrated what I was trying to get across the other day. And like theorris, I want to commend you for being open to dialogue. Forgive me if I ever came across as sounding hostile or upset in my comments on your other post. I just feel strongly about the benefits that more school choice would offer Utah.
And by the way, I grew up in SW Houston. When ever it gets hot in Utah, I just reminisce about those humid Houston summers, and then all of the sudden, it doesn't seem that hot anymore.
Exactly. People who laugh about "it's a dry heat" need to spend a week in Houston in July. What high school? I went to Spring Branch.
You never came across as hostile. I support school choice, but personally I wish it wouldn't suck up so much air in the room when education is discussed. I think we should simply pass it, let 1-3% more families move to private options, and get on to other issues. However, the D.C. experience, as you likely would argue, does strongly suggest that choice might be more of a fundamental driver of improvement than I have been thinking.
After 3 years of teaching with good yearly evaluations a teacher gets "tenure". It is not the same as in the universities. During those three years a district can choose not to rehire, but they must notify the teacher by March 1 that they will not be rehired.
After "tenure" is achieved the district must attempt remediation specifying what specifically is not up to standard. If after a year of remediation the evaluation shows the problem still exists they can be fired. Of course if there is criminal conduct that can happen immediately without any remediation, etc.
If "tenure", or orderly termination, were somehow gotten rid of, most cases would just end up in court. There is a certain duty a district owes the employee. So it is more complex than just getting rid of tenure. In fact all but the smallest businesses have a similar situation. You just have to be fair in firing. This idea that tenure is hurting education is not correct. Our size more than anything is causing the problems we are experiencing.
On your last comment, the problem is vouchers have a much greater ramification than just letting an additional 1-3% leave. There are great consequences and that is why all the debate that never ends.
I think the part of the debate that is glossed over readily in these discussions is that the tax money that would go to schools is then taken away. People fear that such a voucher system is a mask for de-funding public education all together and, therefore, going back to a system where the children of the less-well-off are not educated. Such and extreme situation would probably not happen, but it will have an effect on the funding of general, public education. Can public education absorb it?
"The most feasible way to bring about a gradual yet substantial transfer from government to private enterprise is to enact in each state a voucher system that enables parents to choose freely the schools their children attend. I first proposed such a voucher system 40 years ago." Milton Friedman at www.cato.org
Who gets to attend the "Tiffany's" school and who gets to attend the "All A Dollar" school? Who gets to profit financially from our children's education? I thought the goal of privatization was a conspiracy theory until I read the above quote. What happens to Democracy?
Theorris,
If done correctly, choice should not take money away from public schools -- on a net basis, which is what matters. In other words, the voucher should be less than the variable cost for each student that opts out.
Last anon,
I'm not sure your comment about Tiffany and All-A-Dollar schools makes the point you want it to. By and large, rich people get better schools in the public education system. With some notable exceptions, the best teachers and administrators migrate to the wealthier schools and the educational product ends up being better.
I found your comments re teacher's unions interesting. A Trib article (14 June) states the Jordan district teacher's union just voted for an effective *decrease* in starting teacher salaries, after the increased cost of health insurance was considered.
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3934384
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